What happens when we flip the urban planning script — putting people, not cars, at the heart of our cities and regions? In this 15-minute episode, Professor Carlos Moreno - creator of the “15-minute city” and now a leading voice behind the “30-minute region” - joins the OECD’s Soo-Jin Kim to explore how we can build more inclusive, connected and resilient places.
From the sidewalks of Paris to rural areas reimagining public services, Carlos shares a bold vision of proximity, empowerment, and local opportunity. Tune in to hear how the future of urban and regional development might be just around the corner — literally.
Transcript
INTRO: [00:00:05] Welcome to OECD Podcasts, where policy meets people. [00:00:08][3.1]
Shayne: [00:00:12] Today we're delighted to be joined by Professor Carlos Moreno, the visionary behind the 15-minute city concept, an urban model that's gained international attention for reimagining how we live, work and move. [00:00:25][12.9]
Alix: [00:00:26] Now, Carlos is expanding that vision and entering new territory with fresh thinking on the concept of the 30-minute region. [00:00:32][6.2]
Shayne: [00:00:34] So as governments and communities around the world grapple with climate, mobility, and housing challenges, now indeed is the perfect time to explore how our urban and regional places can adapt, thrive, and become more resilient to shocks that in fact we're seeing arrive more and more. [00:00:52][18.0]
Alix: [00:00:53] So over to the OECD's Soo-Jin Kim, who will be talking to Carlos Moreno on OECDPodcast. [00:00:56][3.7]
Soo-Jin: [00:01:00] Carlos, thank you so much for joining us on OECD Podcast. [00:01:02][2.9]
Speaker 5: [00:01:03] Thank you for this kind invitation. [00:01:04][0.8]
Soo-Jin: [00:01:05] Can you tell us how the 15-minute city concept was born? What inspired you to go further in developing it? And what problem were you trying to solve? Or what opportunities were you exploring? [00:01:16][11.6]
Carlos: [00:01:18] In fact, my first discipline is mathematics and computer science. I was a pioneer on smart cities, technology for cities. In 2010, I understood that the real challenge for cities is not technology, but the well-being. And in fact, we need to change radically our urban lifestyle. And when... I understood the importance of the climate change in our urban life. In 2010, I decided to switch from the smart technologies to the design of services. In 2015, Paris 10 years ago hosted the COP21. Just a few months after, I proposed, for the first time, this concept, the 15-minute cheat. I considered after the COP21 that cities are at the heart of the climate change, loss of biodiversity, and at the same time, economical and social tensions. I said the COP 21 is an agreement between nations, between countries, that we need to propose a radical change for cities. The question is not to propose the technological solutions for climate change for cities, but to propose a holistic way, a systemic way. The 50-minute city is this response to change our urban lifestyle, work lifestyle, our commuter style, for giving a priority to decentralized services, to access within a short perimeter to a lot of different services for improving our quality of life. Schools, education, culture, theater, movies, restaurant, bar, cafe, public spaces, green area, water, fountains, to reconquer public spaces for people and no more, essentially for cars. This was the origin of the 15-minute city for the first time in 2016, almost 10 years ago. [00:03:41][142.6]
Soo-Jin: [00:03:44] The idea of the 15-minute city concept has resonated all around the world, from Paris to Portland to Melbourne. Why do you think it struck a chord with so many cities and what were some of the key challenges in making it work? [00:03:58][14.3]
Carlos : [00:03:59] After proposing this concept in 2016, this concept was on the ladder. In 2018, the Mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, considered that my first experiences in three districts in Paris was a real contribution for offering a new perspective. Anne Hidalgo and I want to pay you a tribute, always embraced this concept. In November, 2018, for proposing the 15-minute city as the backbone of the urban policy for her new mandate sure. In March 2020, five years ago, we had this planetary urban health crisis with the COVID-19. This was the spark for evoking the importance of proximity in our urban life. More livable neighborhoods. More social interactions, more family interactions, more jobs in proximity parks, and at the same time to reduce our compulsory commuting for mixing in this kind of hybridization with the work style, with the remote technologies. In Europe, in Milan, Giuseppe Sala, this was the epicenter of COVID-19 in Europe. And he embraced as well this concept in May, 2020. In July, 2020, the C40 cities, the government work of metropolitan areas for fighting against systemic change embraced as this concept. And after that, the important institutions as UN Habitat, UCLG, the oldest international organization of local governance. And other different institutions, the OECD, we had as well at this moment a lot of discussions for going in this way. In a nutshell, because this concept is regardless of the size of the density of cities of territories, we have a lot of different possibilities for customizing this concept. We have the possibility for adapting this concept in lots of different contexts, social, economical, cultural, geographical, political, religious. This is very, very open. This is a framework. This is not a copy paste. This is, not a receipt. This is the way for reimagining our cities with this motto, a human scale city. With a lot of different services for changing our ecological, economical and social interactions. [00:07:02][182.3]
Soo-Jin: [00:07:04] Now you're turning your attention to a broader scale, the 30-minute region or territory. Could you tell us what this means? Are we just enlarging the 15-minute city concept to a broad area, or are there any more fundamental differences between the two? [00:07:20][16.0]
Carlos: [00:07:21] Indeed, at the beginning, this concept was embraced by the great metropolis in particular, by the influence of C40 cities and the big international mayors totally convinced of the importance to switch. And after that, this concepts in fact has become a global movement in the five continents. We have the interest of a lot of different mayors of the middle cities, small cities, even ruralities. And it was the start of a second period to adapt this flexible concept, this framework for the medium and low densities. It was the emergence of the 30 minutes territory. In reality, I evoke very often that in the 15-minute city concept, the less important point is the number of minutes. Today, we have a new nickname, the X-minute City. Why? Because we have in Utrecht, the 10-minute city in Copenhagen or Havn, the five-minute city in Melbourne or the 20-minute city in Scotland for this country, the 20 minutes territory in Spain. That's all I have to say. Thank you very much. The 30 minutes spent for the global, for the total territory. We have today a lot of nick time, including a complete neighborhood, et cetera. In the medium and low densities, we have today lot of different local governments interested in to explore and to develop the new initiatives in Poland, for example. 15,000 inhabitants in Pleshova, close to Poznan. The member of the Academy of Science, Mayor Arcadius Ptac. He is one of the pioneers. He implemented this concept five years ago, almost at the beginning. In France, the rurality was just 5,000 habitants in lots of different places around the world. The relevant point is in fact our flexibility for adapting this concept. In the medium and low densities, we need to develop this polycentric territory and of course we need adapt our mobilities. This is not a question to have one capability by capability when you are in face with the low density. But we need develop an innovative mobility, car, electrical, car sharing, on demand of virtual lines, but the idea is always the same idea, to develop a human scale territory. [00:10:23][182.2]
Soo-Jin: [00:10:25] What advice would you give to local or national governments who want to implement these ideas but are not quite sure where to begin? [00:10:33][7.7]
Carlos: [00:10:34] I have 3 pieces of advice for local government. The first one to consider that this concept is not a magic wand for solving in a few months, seven decades of solidification, of segmentation, of fermentation. The second one, to consider this concept in a mid and long-term vision. This is not just a question of well capability or by capability. Of course, we need by capability in our cities. But we need a mid and long-term vision for converging in the ecological measure, well capability and by capability, economical ways for developing local employment short-term circuits to use local raw materials to develop a new skills, to develop more. Added value in the local context, and the first one to develop more social interactions, intergenerational interactions, more gender equity. This is the second point. And just for finishing, to consider the importance to be really in a pedagogical attitude with the private sector, for embarking in this journey, the private sectors, for changing the business model. Of the private sector for emplacing this proximity, it's totally possible. And to discuss with the citizens for having a more powerful empowerment. [00:12:09][95.0]
Soo-Jin: [00:12:11] And in 10 or 15 years, what legacy do you hope the 15 minute city and the 30 minute region will have left behind? What would be an indicator of success for you? [00:12:21][10.2]
Carlos: [00:12:22] I would like to evoke this journey as an optimistic journey. In 15 years, unfortunately, we will have a stronger increase of temperatures around the world. Time exchange will be really more and more. My legacy is in fact for the new generations, for the young people, for the young majors, for UNG, for young entrepreneurs, for saying 15 years ago Moreno has started the global movement. But this is not the legacy of Moreno. This is the legacy of an international movement based in South Africa. Different experiences worldwide for customizing and for adapting a human scale city for changing our lifestyle. And today, 15 years ago, we have the great experiences in this journey for mitigate and for adopting our cities in face with this impact. Climate change. Poverty and social exclusion. [00:13:50][87.8]
Soo-Jin: [00:13:51] Carlos, thank you so much for joining us and for sharing your insights with us today. [00:13:55][3.7]
Speaker 5: [00:13:55] Great pleasure to take part in this podcast. Thank you, Sujin, for your questions. [00:13:59][3.7]
Shayne: [00:14:01] At the OECD we continue to explore how public policy, citizen engagement and urban design can work together for stronger societies. [00:14:08][7.6]
Alix: [00:14:10] From our work on cities and regions, to our initiatives on local development and employment, we're committed to ideas that connect people, not just to places and firms, but to new possibilities to create more resilient places. For more OECD work, visit oecd.org and look for Urban Development. Thanks for listening, we'll see you next time on OECDPodcasts. [00:14:28][18.7]
Robin: [00:14:30] To listen to other OECD podcasts, find us on iTunes, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and soundcloud.com slash OECD. [00:14:30][0.0]
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